![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
renay posting in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
ladybusinessTrigger warning.
I wrote an article in Strange Horizons. Several people had a meltdown and decided to ensure I would avoid them and their work for the next forever, and I sincerely hope it's mutual. Additionally, several authors, editors, and reviewers I used to have a lot of respect for have pretty effectively convinced me that part of SF fandom may not be meant for me, which is fine. Keep it, folks; it's yours!
There's finally started to be some discussion rather than Twitter fury, but of course I spent all weekend gaping at the Twitter fury that wouldn't stop. I watched the community "defend" authors against a pseudonymous, no-name fan (I'm extremely dangerous and hold a lot of social sway—oh wait), watched my own words used mockingly and retweeted by people being kind to my face (really??? dude, I can still see that shit, you're not subtle), and witnessed yet another fap fest over reviews (this was never meant to be about reviews; intent doesn't matter; the author is dead). I was pretty done as soon as I received the first piece of vile commentary where someone offered to put their dick in my mouth because I was being too mouthy, as you do. BUT HEY, SEXISM IS OVER. This is what people who write in any mainstream capacity put up with (besides the sexism stuff; I know about that part)? I'm exhausted and I can't even. What a shitshow.
Strange Horizons is my first mainstream gig. I was always going to go through this. I was prepared! Spoiler: you are never prepared. At the very least, it's been an adventure. My next article is going to be about bunnies. Cute, fluffy, space bunnies. I swear I will find a way to make it work. Niall just started weeping and doesn't know why.
I did want to highlight some awesome things I think came out of this:
1. Fans: You got your fannish preconceptions all over my critic's space — I really, really like this. I disagree with it (our perspectives and how we've experienced the community are so different!), but I like it. :D
2. You Knew This Industry Blogger Wasn’t Going to Keep His Mouth Shut — Justin's opinion, which I admit I wanted from the very beginning. Can I blame him for the original column? It's a little bit his fault, like 5%, but hell, next time, I'm just going to send him an email.
3. Rose Fox's comments in particular on The Book Smugglers post related to this issue, which has a good range of other comments, too (Ana and Thea, I am still so very sorry.).
4. Deloper of the Author — I needed a dictionary for some of this, but it's really fascinating.
5. Authors and Bloggers and Fans, Oh My — Easing my mind that some of my points made it through. Yay. :)
Writing! It's like gambling with your peace of mind. On the plus side, at least you can do it with no pants, which makes up for all the hard parts. Cheers, SF fandom. Cheers.
(ETA)
I wrote an article in Strange Horizons. Several people had a meltdown and decided to ensure I would avoid them and their work for the next forever, and I sincerely hope it's mutual. Additionally, several authors, editors, and reviewers I used to have a lot of respect for have pretty effectively convinced me that part of SF fandom may not be meant for me, which is fine. Keep it, folks; it's yours!
There's finally started to be some discussion rather than Twitter fury, but of course I spent all weekend gaping at the Twitter fury that wouldn't stop. I watched the community "defend" authors against a pseudonymous, no-name fan (I'm extremely dangerous and hold a lot of social sway—oh wait), watched my own words used mockingly and retweeted by people being kind to my face (really??? dude, I can still see that shit, you're not subtle), and witnessed yet another fap fest over reviews (this was never meant to be about reviews; intent doesn't matter; the author is dead). I was pretty done as soon as I received the first piece of vile commentary where someone offered to put their dick in my mouth because I was being too mouthy, as you do. BUT HEY, SEXISM IS OVER. This is what people who write in any mainstream capacity put up with (besides the sexism stuff; I know about that part)? I'm exhausted and I can't even. What a shitshow.
Strange Horizons is my first mainstream gig. I was always going to go through this. I was prepared! Spoiler: you are never prepared. At the very least, it's been an adventure. My next article is going to be about bunnies. Cute, fluffy, space bunnies. I swear I will find a way to make it work. Niall just started weeping and doesn't know why.
I did want to highlight some awesome things I think came out of this:
1. Fans: You got your fannish preconceptions all over my critic's space — I really, really like this. I disagree with it (our perspectives and how we've experienced the community are so different!), but I like it. :D
2. You Knew This Industry Blogger Wasn’t Going to Keep His Mouth Shut — Justin's opinion, which I admit I wanted from the very beginning. Can I blame him for the original column? It's a little bit his fault, like 5%, but hell, next time, I'm just going to send him an email.
3. Rose Fox's comments in particular on The Book Smugglers post related to this issue, which has a good range of other comments, too (Ana and Thea, I am still so very sorry.).
4. Deloper of the Author — I needed a dictionary for some of this, but it's really fascinating.
5. Authors and Bloggers and Fans, Oh My — Easing my mind that some of my points made it through. Yay. :)
Writing! It's like gambling with your peace of mind. On the plus side, at least you can do it with no pants, which makes up for all the hard parts. Cheers, SF fandom. Cheers.
(ETA)
no subject
Date: 2013-09-17 02:07 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-09-17 02:09 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-09-17 04:21 am (UTC)(Haha I hope you guys populate the "relentlessly oppressing authors" tag!)
no subject
Date: 2013-09-17 04:44 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-09-17 05:00 am (UTC)Jesus on a pogo stick. It makes me want to burn the internet DOWN.
(Although you get major props for the Troy-with-pizza gif!)
And despite all the glowing reviews of the Rivers of London novels, Ben Aaronovitch is never getting another dollar from me. What an asshole.
no subject
Date: 2013-09-17 05:15 am (UTC)Yeah, that's the worst part of this for me. His books are sitting on my shelf! I was excited to read them and one of them was a gift! I'll never be able to stomach them now. On the Orson Scott Card scale of crap I can't handle, that falls pretty squarely on "would rather consume cow dung".
no subject
Date: 2013-09-17 12:14 pm (UTC)Well, it would be for me. But I'm not very nice sometimes.
no subject
Date: 2013-09-18 06:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-09-18 10:05 am (UTC)IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO BURN THE ONE I GOT FOR YOU THAT IS COMPLETELY FAIR ENOUGH.
no subject
Date: 2013-09-18 06:26 pm (UTC)I'm not going to burn his books, oh gosh. XD I am going to kindly donate them to the Friends of the Library bookshop, where some other reader, who is not me, can find them. Then to apologize for not reading it/giving it away I will buy another book you want me to read, which the disclaimer my list of "authors I am no longer interested in reading, ever" has uh, expanded a bit! There's a recs thread Ana started; you should totally toss some suggestions over here.
no subject
Date: 2013-09-17 05:28 am (UTC)This is probably terribly forward of me, and I apologize if I'm breaking some rule, but I followed this weekend's events with such appalled fascination that I ended up writing an essay about the misogyny on display. I'd be very humbled if you read it - though I linked to some (for me, anyway) distressing tweets, so...maybe don't click the links?http://literarylottie.wordpress.com/2013/09/17/bad-reviews-bullying-and-how-not-to-stick-your-foot-in-it-an-entirely-subjective-guide/
Sorry that you had to endure such a shitshow.
PS - I LOVE that gif of CC and Niles.
no subject
Date: 2013-09-17 06:36 am (UTC)I'm not going to argue with people's interpretations (well, a little in spaces where I know I'm not facing accusations of bullying), but I do suspect the fervor on Twitter meant that the idea that I presented, that authors should take care when entering fannish discussion space (not reviews; my examples weren't of reviews and I never meant to include them so that's my bad), wasn't sticky enough. The sticky idea that ended up being born was "authors shouldn't comment on reviews" and it blew up into a balloon tentacle monster of fury and spread like only Twitter drama can. I suspect a lot of the bloggers creating welcome signs for authors and policies are reacting to that strawman of single-author reviews, rather than my argument about potentially intense, multi-fan, explicitly interpretative discussions and how authors should think about it. "Think about it" is now code for "beat it!"??? My argument was never "GTFO!" as I would be a hypocrite, because there are tons of authors who have stepped into my space and been fine, and some who I hope know have open invitations. One of the authors in the Twitter conversations with PNH was one of them. Last I checked I wasn't a fuckmuppet to him; he escaped my wrath unscathed by my fan/author essentialism! I'll try harder next time.
Your position is probably correct! A lot of the bloggers creating signs/policies to welcome authors (that I've seen) are women. Of course, they're not really engaging with me directly, but rather just having a discussion to themselves, which is pretty telling. I didn't say it outright, but I suspected the reaction the people who accused Ana and I of bullying was gendered, but wasn't sure if it was BECAUSE it was or if it's because I've had multiple run in with those people (I assume they're both men) over gender issues in the past, where they shout down women deliberately and use the full force of their social networks to help do so and have no interest in examining their biases. I'm also not the only one who has noticed the pattern, either.
And HA, Emma Jane Davies, wow. I have a suspicion that's pure retaliation since Ana roundly took apart an opinion piece she wrote in response to us earlier this year. She's one to talk about appropriating any type of language when she does the exact same thing. Gotta admire her for sticking with a grudge until it's beaten and dead on the ground, though.
no subject
Date: 2013-09-17 06:51 am (UTC)Also WOW - I thought it might stir some discussion but WOW. The Welcome signs... I know you think that could be a good consequence and I'm sure it will be. It's just the posts that go with those signs at the mo.
no subject
Date: 2013-09-17 05:23 pm (UTC)A lot of those bloggers are misrepresenting my argument. I'm glad they support authors in their space. I never said they couldn't, or that authors didn't belong there if they wanted them there. I've been waiting for someone to show me the part where I said authors weren't allowed to leave comments on reviews so I can clarify and apologize. I've asked several people for feedback on that point. But as far as I can tell, they're using a twisted version of my argument in order to play the part of the defenders of bullied and silenced authors (whose fannishness I've deliberately stripped away from them) who've been ordered to stay away from their blogs by a third party. They've invented a problem that didn't exist and provided a solution which makes them look empathetic and villainized the opposing "side" (which still, even now, doesn't exist).
I wish them well with their signs. I don't even think they're necessarily a bad idea, but as long as they remain in that form, surrounded by the problematic context of their genesis, I don't think they're healthy. They should be an action to welcoming authors and not a reaction to a some skewed version of my thesis. If I see the later I will gladly support it, but I am going to be dubious engaging with or linking to blogs that have the former for awhile.
no subject
Date: 2013-09-17 08:17 am (UTC)Ana Book Smugglers
no subject
Date: 2013-09-17 04:27 pm (UTC)It is way too early to use that icon.
Date: 2013-09-17 11:53 am (UTC)Nit:
Re: It is way too early to use that icon.
Date: 2013-09-17 04:33 pm (UTC)Thanks for the feedback. Someone else left that, too, but I don't have editing privileges. I meant to ask Niall but ha ha ha...distraction. I'll pass it along. ♥
no subject
Date: 2013-09-17 12:10 pm (UTC)And those people are saving me a bunch of time and money because it makes it really easy to decide who to read and who to avoid like the arses they are.
no subject
Date: 2013-09-17 04:48 pm (UTC)And yeah, I'm in that phase, too, with authors and some bloggers. I'm just going to take a break, stop engaging with them, and assess later, when I'm feeling less volatile, whether or not their behavior is something that means I can't support/enjoy their work in the future. Sad. :(
no subject
Date: 2013-09-17 01:41 pm (UTC)I, too, was really surprised at the extent to which some people seem to have perceived your argument as an attack on authors, rather than the expression of a viewpoint from one corner of fandom. I found myself arguing with people I respect who had clearly taken it very badly, without seeming to see that you were in no way forbidding them to disagree with you. I think some of it was the twitter effect - i.e. more people were reading 140-character versions of the post than they were reading the post itself - and some of it was the way the sf community seems to communicate with itself these days. Also, clearly one or two people with non-trivial megaphones who have taken against you personally, unfortunately.
Things seem to be calming down now a bit, for an outsider's perspective; we've entered the blog post phase, which usually allows for a bit more nuance in response. I hope it looks calmer from where you are, too.
Nic (Eve's Alexandria)
no subject
Date: 2013-09-17 04:46 pm (UTC)I remember when there was no Twitter phase and miss it very much sometimes! Although I'm guilty of the same thing a lot of other people have done on Twitter by not waiting for blog posts before reacting about other issues, I sure won't be doing that again. This was a good learning experience on re: writing AND social media.
no subject
Date: 2013-09-17 07:46 pm (UTC)I'm not sure I totally agree with your point about authors never entering a debate. For a factual corrections that's fine, but to enter an argument over an interpretation is just wrong. An author just writes the book, the reader recreates it every time they read it. (obviously *just* writes is an exaggeration. Writing is hard. But readers who bother enough to offer up interpretations deserve to have a space without "authorial intent" breathing down their necks).
Fence - http://www.susanhatedliterature.net
no subject
Date: 2013-09-17 07:54 pm (UTC)I'm not even totally sure I agree with my point anymore! In two days my entire view has changed, which is actually really great! I love learning new things. :) I think it's a lot more complex now than I initially laid out, but it's been fun to think about as more people share their perspectives.
no subject
Date: 2013-09-18 05:50 pm (UTC)I'm not sure if Kameron Hurley came across the drama or if it just coincidence, but she has a post up at the moment that sort of covers both sides of the divide, she was a book blogger before becoming a published author : http://www.kameronhurley.com/when-a-big-name-author-ranted-about-my-review-of-their-book/
Fence - http://www.susanhatedliterature.net
no subject
Date: 2013-09-18 06:19 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-09-17 10:57 pm (UTC)Now, a lot of people ARE staying civil. And to be honest, no matter what I think, the genre IS changing (hello, internet) and so is publishing. These are important issues that people are eager to discuss. There are some great points being thrown around that are incredibly thoughtful and insightful. And yes, a lot of these points are making me rethink my initial stance in some ways. That is important. If people are too set in their ways, how is there any progress? That's what I love about discussions. You show me why you feel the way you do. I respond, and your insights invariably impact my response and perceptions of what is happening. It's called the exchange of ideas. Brilliant, really.
But when people start being asshats and stop realizing that you can disagree while doing it in a nice(er) way, then I start getting sick. I've had a lot of terrible email comments, too. Horrible stuff. I feel like screaming, because these really good comments, these thoughtful discussions, the free exchange of ideas that will invariably impact my own perceptions of what is happening, is starting to get buried under so much crap.
Yes, we might disagree, but I tend to disagree with everyone at one time or another. Despite the fact that we come from different perceptions, I recognize that you have a right to your feelings, and I also think that these logical, rational discussions that are happening are very important to the genre, fandom, publishing, etc. There is NO excuse for how some people are treating other people. None. Zip. Period. It's sick. It's wrong. But I am also thankful that people can be adults, too. Much of this has been enlightening, and my opinions have evolved a bit since Sunday, but that's not really important to this post.
Anyway, I just wanted to stop by and tell you that, no matter where you are coming from, I respect you. I recognize your contribution to the genre, and I wish everyone would shut up, sit down, and act like adults.
And I sincerely hope none of this is offensive. That's not my intention.
no subject
Date: 2013-09-17 10:58 pm (UTC)Sorry, I forgot to add that.
no subject
Date: 2013-09-18 07:36 am (UTC)Yes, there are definitely some people being kind and patient when it comes to our different positions. I appreciate all of these people 100%, because this would have been unbearable without them. It honestly feels like this is never going to stop being directed at me/thrown in my face (although I'm happy to let people rant about it in their own networks).
I'm not sure where we stand in regards to each other -- you seem to be one of the bloggers diving into the whole "authors welcome!" pile, and since I never argued that authors were not welcome or should never have a presence in fan spaces, and remain 100% confused on where that gem of a meme came from, it's a little unclear where exactly we disagree. Although I am fine with people disagreeing! I expected people to disagree. I just didn't realize that authors have a such complicated relationship with their authorial identities that my position would make them feel unwelcome from all fan discussions, regardless of whether or not it was about their work. I still don't think that was part of my argument, but concede that intent doesn't matter and the author is dead. ;)
Making that sort of goof is bad in any situation, but it's churned up so much that I'm embarrassed and appalled by some of the reactions, deliberate misreadings, and terrible accusations being lobbed at me by people in the community. I hope everyone calms down soon or something else does something controversial, because I could really use a break. :D
Thank you very much for this, though. It came at the perfect time. ♥
no subject
Date: 2013-09-18 10:55 pm (UTC)Yeah, I think authors are welcome, but I'm also in the camp of, if it's your website, and you pay the bills, you are king/queen of your domain and do whatever the hell you want.
I guess that means that I disagree with everyone? Who knows. All I know is I have some solidarity with you. Stupid bastards and their stupid bastard email. No one deserves this crap. Lets all drink vodka, eat cake, and move the hell on.
no subject
Date: 2013-09-20 02:37 am (UTC)BIRTHDAY CAKE VODKA? I'm on board.
no subject
Date: 2013-09-20 07:13 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-09-20 07:20 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-09-18 03:08 am (UTC)make fools of themselvesattempt to open debate where debate wasn't wanted or fairly weighted; anyone who spent years watching Anne Rice be her own worst enemy onMaybe it's just the lateness of the hour, but I couldn't quite figure out what had caused people to blow up. Perhaps I'll try rereading tomorrow and see if I can pick out where the furore blew in from?
no subject
Date: 2013-09-18 07:52 am (UTC)So basically I think what happened was The Internet, and it exploded because Reasons. #science
no subject
Date: 2013-09-18 10:15 am (UTC)I am sorry that people are dogpiling you. If you want me to send you cookies or better books or something, let me know.
no subject
Date: 2013-09-18 06:48 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-09-19 12:28 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-09-20 02:35 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-09-20 01:10 pm (UTC)Shitshitshit. That's what I get for being nonexistent on the internet these days, I guess. Missed chances to troll!
<3
no subject
Date: 2013-09-20 07:20 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-09-20 07:25 pm (UTC)don't give them ideas
no subject
Date: 2013-09-20 07:34 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-09-21 02:07 am (UTC)* WORLD EXPLODES *
no subject
Date: 2013-09-21 02:50 am (UTC)