No problem! I think that may be part of the disconnect. I'm seeing it thru a very Canadian lens as that's the source material.
I worry that I may be picking at hairs with the whole PoC thing. It's something that I've had to roll about my head for a long time and I may or may not word myself correctly. I feel like I'm overstepping myself in ways because my family dropped practicing Judaism when we fled Prussia. We converted to Lutheranism as part of that assimilation process and as a result lost our culture. I've talked before about how I feel really bad about not speaking German, it's kind of bleeding into my feelings
And that's where I want to touch on author intent. Yes, it only goes so far, but the bones, the skeleton of it is still an experience that is culturally Jewish. I could be wrong, but ignoring that feels like erasure of that struggle because they are now “white” (Until the media/people have half an idea that it's going to be okay to be antisemitic, then not white anymore). By ignoring those bare bones and throwing an “all PoC” blanket over it you're not going to be upset. Seeing how wrong the Dalish got everything rang so true to me. Jewish scholars can't agree on much of the Torah or the histories. It mirrors what Jews are going through today so well.
On top of that, it's a portrayal of Jewish culture in mass media that doesn't paint them as greedy witches or pure, perfect saints. It portrays them as complex, self warring people who don't agree. I appreciate that other cultures have seen this and felt a connection, I don't want to take that from them at all. But I do not want to have that overshadow and erase the Jewish experience for what it is. The lack of a voice is not as huge an issue for me because I know the pattern of the previous games.
DA:O – Dwarfs screwed everyone over
DA:2 – Humans screwed everyone over
DA:I – Elves screwed everyone over
I think that the lack of voice again, is a direct trickle-down from what it was written to mirror. Did the writing convey that properly? In my opinion, no. I think that the writing suffers from a lack of really weaving the story in and out. It too, gives the fandom too much credit and is a game you actually HAVE to play multiple times to get everything out of it (like Bull and Cassandra's banter). I think that the complexity is honestly amazing. I'd love a DLC to get into more. I agree wholeheartedly that there should have been more. It absolutely should have been clearer, I agree.
The lack of knowledge is problematic in all displaced cultures. As I said above, scholars do not agree. You have Solas who is the expert on all things Dalish, but he's like a Hasidic Jew (to the 100000th degree). Sera is another side of the coin. (And remind me to talk about how much the Qun mirrors Mormonism on steriods, it's AMAZINGLY interesting)
There I agree wholeheartedly! I think that it's great that Viv says “oh no, Chantries are very permissive usually”. But we never really saw that until DA:I. On one hand, Kirkwall was a kettle of horrible wrapped in crap blankets, on the other we never saw anything different.
I completely agree with you re: Viv and Dorian being the advocates for the oppressive system. The problem is that when I look at the writing what is worse? Making Sera the dark skinned one would have played up the “ill educated black woman” trope. Making Solas brown would play into the “possibly evil magical savage” trope. Cassandra would have been a good choice, IMO, but they were limited and I think that they went with the one that would be seen in the best light? I may be giving them way too much credit tho.
“ If we had lots of characters of colour, all with different viewpoints, then I would be pretty dang happy with Vivienne just as she is” EXACTLY. Why did we need any white representation? That's the next thing that I was going to say. Since no one is actually in a good light (everyone has rather massive character flaws, like real people) why do we need anyone with light skin and blue eyes? Is it from a sales perspective? I'm not sure. I understand the characters already established as light skinned should stay that way, but the others?
OH MY GOD HOW MUCH ARE WE GOING TO TALK ABOUT TRANQUILITY. O.M.G.
The more I think about it, the more that I wish we would have been given Dragon Age Inquisition as a serial, not as a whole game. Then we really could have dug into everything they could have taken more time (because I think that's what they needed, more time). And maybe those characters could be read all of it. Also, when Dorian talks about his sexuality he says that he should introduce himself “I'm Dorian and I like men. That's all that everyone else seems to care about.” And in reality, that IS. When you're queer and out in straight spaces, you're the “queer friend”. You're literally defined by your sexuality.
I so wish there was a “Oh me too” option to sit down and talk with Krem. It would have been beautiful.
Do yourself a favor, stay off of the BSN then. However, I suppose it goes to speak in fandom that we need to remove ourselves form the echo chambers from time to time. Without going out there, you run the risk of seeing everything in one specific lens. Pickup Artists and MRAs see people applauding them in their echo chambers and unfortunately, Tumblr is just as bad in an opposite way if you stay to certain circles.
Please god, try a kink relationship again, Bioware, don't give up, you were SO CLOSE.
ANNNND I am so sorry that THIS took so long to get back to you and that it was so long and... okay, we both have a lot of feels here. Heaven help everyone that gets to listen to us at the next hangout.
no subject
No problem! I think that may be part of the disconnect. I'm seeing it thru a very Canadian lens as that's the source material.
I worry that I may be picking at hairs with the whole PoC thing. It's something that I've had to roll about my head for a long time and I may or may not word myself correctly. I feel like I'm overstepping myself in ways because my family dropped practicing Judaism when we fled Prussia. We converted to Lutheranism as part of that assimilation process and as a result lost our culture. I've talked before about how I feel really bad about not speaking German, it's kind of bleeding into my feelings
And that's where I want to touch on author intent. Yes, it only goes so far, but the bones, the skeleton of it is still an experience that is culturally Jewish. I could be wrong, but ignoring that feels like erasure of that struggle because they are now “white” (Until the media/people have half an idea that it's going to be okay to be antisemitic, then not white anymore). By ignoring those bare bones and throwing an “all PoC” blanket over it you're not going to be upset. Seeing how wrong the Dalish got everything rang so true to me. Jewish scholars can't agree on much of the Torah or the histories. It mirrors what Jews are going through today so well.
On top of that, it's a portrayal of Jewish culture in mass media that doesn't paint them as greedy witches or pure, perfect saints. It portrays them as complex, self warring people who don't agree. I appreciate that other cultures have seen this and felt a connection, I don't want to take that from them at all. But I do not want to have that overshadow and erase the Jewish experience for what it is. The lack of a voice is not as huge an issue for me because I know the pattern of the previous games.
DA:O – Dwarfs screwed everyone over DA:2 – Humans screwed everyone over DA:I – Elves screwed everyone over
I think that the lack of voice again, is a direct trickle-down from what it was written to mirror. Did the writing convey that properly? In my opinion, no. I think that the writing suffers from a lack of really weaving the story in and out. It too, gives the fandom too much credit and is a game you actually HAVE to play multiple times to get everything out of it (like Bull and Cassandra's banter). I think that the complexity is honestly amazing. I'd love a DLC to get into more. I agree wholeheartedly that there should have been more. It absolutely should have been clearer, I agree.
The lack of knowledge is problematic in all displaced cultures. As I said above, scholars do not agree. You have Solas who is the expert on all things Dalish, but he's like a Hasidic Jew (to the 100000th degree). Sera is another side of the coin. (And remind me to talk about how much the Qun mirrors Mormonism on steriods, it's AMAZINGLY interesting)
There I agree wholeheartedly! I think that it's great that Viv says “oh no, Chantries are very permissive usually”. But we never really saw that until DA:I. On one hand, Kirkwall was a kettle of horrible wrapped in crap blankets, on the other we never saw anything different.
I completely agree with you re: Viv and Dorian being the advocates for the oppressive system. The problem is that when I look at the writing what is worse? Making Sera the dark skinned one would have played up the “ill educated black woman” trope. Making Solas brown would play into the “possibly evil magical savage” trope. Cassandra would have been a good choice, IMO, but they were limited and I think that they went with the one that would be seen in the best light? I may be giving them way too much credit tho.
“ If we had lots of characters of colour, all with different viewpoints, then I would be pretty dang happy with Vivienne just as she is” EXACTLY. Why did we need any white representation? That's the next thing that I was going to say. Since no one is actually in a good light (everyone has rather massive character flaws, like real people) why do we need anyone with light skin and blue eyes? Is it from a sales perspective? I'm not sure. I understand the characters already established as light skinned should stay that way, but the others?
OH MY GOD HOW MUCH ARE WE GOING TO TALK ABOUT TRANQUILITY. O.M.G.
The more I think about it, the more that I wish we would have been given Dragon Age Inquisition as a serial, not as a whole game. Then we really could have dug into everything they could have taken more time (because I think that's what they needed, more time). And maybe those characters could be read all of it. Also, when Dorian talks about his sexuality he says that he should introduce himself “I'm Dorian and I like men. That's all that everyone else seems to care about.” And in reality, that IS. When you're queer and out in straight spaces, you're the “queer friend”. You're literally defined by your sexuality.
I so wish there was a “Oh me too” option to sit down and talk with Krem. It would have been beautiful.
Do yourself a favor, stay off of the BSN then. However, I suppose it goes to speak in fandom that we need to remove ourselves form the echo chambers from time to time. Without going out there, you run the risk of seeing everything in one specific lens. Pickup Artists and MRAs see people applauding them in their echo chambers and unfortunately, Tumblr is just as bad in an opposite way if you stay to certain circles.
Please god, try a kink relationship again, Bioware, don't give up, you were SO CLOSE.
ANNNND I am so sorry that THIS took so long to get back to you and that it was so long and... okay, we both have a lot of feels here. Heaven help everyone that gets to listen to us at the next hangout.