Oh my goodness this is a beautiful comment, thank you so much!
First, I'm going to have to apologize for my discourse/terminology possibly not being broad enough, in that likely it's too US-centric. I know racial terms and dynamics in the US are very different from basically the entire rest of the world (for all that I am not actually from the US).
With that disclaimer, it is my understanding that diaspora peoples are generally not considered white, or white enough, in the respective regions they populate (and even in places like the US, White Jews are offered white privilege only in exchange for assimilation). It is under this understanding that I label the DA elves as POC-coded (and likely where my terminology is failing). I know the writers were specifically basing them off Jewish peoples. But I do want to also add that author intent only goes so far — the writers may have intended one specific diaspora group, but just like real-world comparisons are inevitable in the case of the mages, so are unintended real-world comparisons inevitable for elves. In this sense, I still think the writers should work to maintain a broad understanding of and sensitivity towards diaspora groups in general, not just the one they were specifically basing the writing off.
But what do I mean by "sensitivity?" I certainly don't mean to paper over the ugliness and tragedy that can, does, and has happened with real-world diaspora groups — like I said, I don't require the elves to be "perfect victims", or to have nothing bad happen to them ever.
What bothers me most is not that bad things happened to the elves, but that they are not given a voice. Let me demonstrate what I mean by way of analogy.
So, Morrigan's clothes! She dresses in a way that's pretty revealing and sexualized, like the majority of video game ladies. But unlike her peers from other games, she exists in world populated by sensibly-dressed women who provide counter-narratives for how women look and act. Morrigan's clothing choices are brought up in conversation and repeatedly defended by her, framing them as odd and unique while simultaneously giving Morrigan a voice. Other women are likewise given voices and opinions (including on the topic of Morrigan's outfit). In this context, the way Morrigan dresses reads to me like a personal choice on her part — it serves to further her characterization and give her a unique voice and outlook, rather than being your standard display of fantasy setting T&A. Of course, it is exceedingly convenient that DAO's most marketable character — the only plot-required female companion — also happens to dress in a way that is (thought of as) marketable. But Bioware have earned a bit of trust here by treating women by and large respectfully in the realm of fashion (though see the link near the top of my review re: misogyny; see also female Dalish elves), and so Morrigan's dress doesn't bother me on this level.
On the other hand is the treatment of the elves. Dalish elves in particular are not given a voice in the installment of the DA series where their history and culture are most relevant. Solas and Sera, our two elvhen voices, are both openly derisive of most elves and Dalish elves in particular. No member of the diaspora group itself is present to give a sympathetic point of view, or even simply to react to the revelations about elvhen history and lore we come across in the game. (I am discounting the Dalish Inquisitor here, the choice of Inquisitor and how the Inquisitor is played being complete wild cards.) We've never really had that voice, but I particularly feel its absence in DAI, where it's most relevant. In DA2, Merrill's relationship with her clan was complicated at best, and her status as a blood mage was far more relevant to the game's themes and plot than her status as a Dalish elf (though the one is influenced by the other, of course). Probably the closest we've come is Velanna, who was shuffled off pretty quickly and wasn't handled with the best sensitivity.
So that's where I'm coming from — I do read the elves as POC-coded in the broadest definition, but they're treated as set dressing. Tragic, tragic set dressing. In DAI, we get a Tevinter voice, but not a Dalish one, or at even any elf that has any interest in the status of modern elves. Dorian may not agree with everything Tevinter does, but he clearly cares about his homeland and is invested in it. We don't have that for the elves, and Bioware has not done enough to earn my trust regarding oppression narratives, not like they've done with how they dress women. I like the read of Morrigan as academic/academia — I just keenly feel the absence of a voice to oppose her interpretations. This is unfortunately often the case in the real world when it comes to studying history, especially the histories of marginalized groups. But that disparity didn't have to be reproduced in DAI.
Whew, okay. That's the bulk of it regarding the elves.
Vivienne has managed to take that and make it work for her. The whole war while a bit clumsy is a pretty good analogy for how people across the board take institutions. If it works for you and protects you, it's hard for you to want to get rid of it.
There's a couple things here that I want to pull out. First, yes, I do like how Bioware shows so many ways of how people and institutions interact. It's good and necessary. But I do find it weird how much we're given that supports the previous status quo versus how much material is given that addresses the horrors of it. I'm not asking for a rehash of DA2 within DAI, but especially for players who hadn't played DA2 before DAI, it comes off as a bit skewed.
That said, I love Vivienne and how clever and resourceful and ambitious she is. But while colourism isn't intended to be prevalent in Thedas, the same way misogyny isn't, it creeps into the worldbuilding in the same way. And just as I think it's valid to critique misogynistic tendencies in Thedas based on how misogyny is realized in our own world, I find it valid to examine characters like Vivienne in the same light. So it still makes me uncomfortable that a WOC is the one advocating for an oppressive system, even though I admire that they created a character like her who made the system work for her. What would make this less problematic for me is simply having more characters of colour, just like what I was saying before about Morrigan. If we had lots of characters of colour, all with different viewpoints, then I would be pretty dang happy with Vivienne just as she is.
And just real quick, while the templars aren't cited as the main cause of the war, they're certainly framed as one face of it, especially in DA2 but continuing on into DAI, and that's the framing I keep up.
(How about that reversible Tranquility though? That was one of the most interesting implications of DAI for me; I want more about this!)
Regarding Dorian's story, I'm glad it worked so well for you and spoke to you in a positive way. It didn't speak to my own experience of queerness in the same way, but I hope it worked for more people the way it did for you than for me — I just found it too clumsy a way to deal with the issue, given either too little space/development for an important topic, or too much emphasis on Dorian's sexuality at the expense of other things they could have done with a gay character. The balance was wrong for me — but I'm glad it worked for you.
You're right, I almost certainly am giving the wider DA fandom too much credit, and I do generally applaud Bioware in persisting the way they do in the face of it. In the case of Krem, what bothers me again is less than the Trans 101 angle exists, and more that it is not counterbalanced with much of anything else. Weekes himself acknowledged this (near the end: "For example, some trans folks feel I wrote the player choices to be too clueless or uninformed, and wished for options to speak from more personal experience. I’ve heard the feedback, and I intend to do better next time."). That said, I had somehow avoided hearing about the "white Isabella" mod and... wow. I guess there's a reason I don't really venture into DA fandom at large much.
I agree that Dorian/Bull suffers from iffy writing more than anything else, but again, it bothers me that it's the first queer companion romance and it's written to be so questionable. Again, if there were more queer relationships around, then one possibly unhealthy one wouldn't stick out.
That's my overall complaint, really; what everything boils down to: issues of trends, balance, and representation. The more you have of a particular kind of person, group or relationship, the less any one instance will stick out as unintentionally representative versus simply being a matter of characterization and worldbuilding.
Finally, I agree that the game relies a bit too much on banter; too much important characterization is optional or randomized. Good point.
Phew okay, sorry that was so long, but you gave me a lot to think about, and I'd definitely love to talk more!
no subject
First, I'm going to have to apologize for my discourse/terminology possibly not being broad enough, in that likely it's too US-centric. I know racial terms and dynamics in the US are very different from basically the entire rest of the world (for all that I am not actually from the US).
With that disclaimer, it is my understanding that diaspora peoples are generally not considered white, or white enough, in the respective regions they populate (and even in places like the US, White Jews are offered white privilege only in exchange for assimilation). It is under this understanding that I label the DA elves as POC-coded (and likely where my terminology is failing). I know the writers were specifically basing them off Jewish peoples. But I do want to also add that author intent only goes so far — the writers may have intended one specific diaspora group, but just like real-world comparisons are inevitable in the case of the mages, so are unintended real-world comparisons inevitable for elves. In this sense, I still think the writers should work to maintain a broad understanding of and sensitivity towards diaspora groups in general, not just the one they were specifically basing the writing off.
But what do I mean by "sensitivity?" I certainly don't mean to paper over the ugliness and tragedy that can, does, and has happened with real-world diaspora groups — like I said, I don't require the elves to be "perfect victims", or to have nothing bad happen to them ever.
What bothers me most is not that bad things happened to the elves, but that they are not given a voice. Let me demonstrate what I mean by way of analogy.
So, Morrigan's clothes! She dresses in a way that's pretty revealing and sexualized, like the majority of video game ladies. But unlike her peers from other games, she exists in world populated by sensibly-dressed women who provide counter-narratives for how women look and act. Morrigan's clothing choices are brought up in conversation and repeatedly defended by her, framing them as odd and unique while simultaneously giving Morrigan a voice. Other women are likewise given voices and opinions (including on the topic of Morrigan's outfit). In this context, the way Morrigan dresses reads to me like a personal choice on her part — it serves to further her characterization and give her a unique voice and outlook, rather than being your standard display of fantasy setting T&A. Of course, it is exceedingly convenient that DAO's most marketable character — the only plot-required female companion — also happens to dress in a way that is (thought of as) marketable. But Bioware have earned a bit of trust here by treating women by and large respectfully in the realm of fashion (though see the link near the top of my review re: misogyny; see also female Dalish elves), and so Morrigan's dress doesn't bother me on this level.
On the other hand is the treatment of the elves. Dalish elves in particular are not given a voice in the installment of the DA series where their history and culture are most relevant. Solas and Sera, our two elvhen voices, are both openly derisive of most elves and Dalish elves in particular. No member of the diaspora group itself is present to give a sympathetic point of view, or even simply to react to the revelations about elvhen history and lore we come across in the game. (I am discounting the Dalish Inquisitor here, the choice of Inquisitor and how the Inquisitor is played being complete wild cards.) We've never really had that voice, but I particularly feel its absence in DAI, where it's most relevant. In DA2, Merrill's relationship with her clan was complicated at best, and her status as a blood mage was far more relevant to the game's themes and plot than her status as a Dalish elf (though the one is influenced by the other, of course). Probably the closest we've come is Velanna, who was shuffled off pretty quickly and wasn't handled with the best sensitivity.
So that's where I'm coming from — I do read the elves as POC-coded in the broadest definition, but they're treated as set dressing. Tragic, tragic set dressing. In DAI, we get a Tevinter voice, but not a Dalish one, or at even any elf that has any interest in the status of modern elves. Dorian may not agree with everything Tevinter does, but he clearly cares about his homeland and is invested in it. We don't have that for the elves, and Bioware has not done enough to earn my trust regarding oppression narratives, not like they've done with how they dress women. I like the read of Morrigan as academic/academia — I just keenly feel the absence of a voice to oppose her interpretations. This is unfortunately often the case in the real world when it comes to studying history, especially the histories of marginalized groups. But that disparity didn't have to be reproduced in DAI.
Whew, okay. That's the bulk of it regarding the elves.
Vivienne has managed to take that and make it work for her. The whole war while a bit clumsy is a pretty good analogy for how people across the board take institutions. If it works for you and protects you, it's hard for you to want to get rid of it.
There's a couple things here that I want to pull out. First, yes, I do like how Bioware shows so many ways of how people and institutions interact. It's good and necessary. But I do find it weird how much we're given that supports the previous status quo versus how much material is given that addresses the horrors of it. I'm not asking for a rehash of DA2 within DAI, but especially for players who hadn't played DA2 before DAI, it comes off as a bit skewed.
That said, I love Vivienne and how clever and resourceful and ambitious she is. But while colourism isn't intended to be prevalent in Thedas, the same way misogyny isn't, it creeps into the worldbuilding in the same way. And just as I think it's valid to critique misogynistic tendencies in Thedas based on how misogyny is realized in our own world, I find it valid to examine characters like Vivienne in the same light. So it still makes me uncomfortable that a WOC is the one advocating for an oppressive system, even though I admire that they created a character like her who made the system work for her. What would make this less problematic for me is simply having more characters of colour, just like what I was saying before about Morrigan. If we had lots of characters of colour, all with different viewpoints, then I would be pretty dang happy with Vivienne just as she is.
And just real quick, while the templars aren't cited as the main cause of the war, they're certainly framed as one face of it, especially in DA2 but continuing on into DAI, and that's the framing I keep up.
(How about that reversible Tranquility though? That was one of the most interesting implications of DAI for me; I want more about this!)
Regarding Dorian's story, I'm glad it worked so well for you and spoke to you in a positive way. It didn't speak to my own experience of queerness in the same way, but I hope it worked for more people the way it did for you than for me — I just found it too clumsy a way to deal with the issue, given either too little space/development for an important topic, or too much emphasis on Dorian's sexuality at the expense of other things they could have done with a gay character. The balance was wrong for me — but I'm glad it worked for you.
You're right, I almost certainly am giving the wider DA fandom too much credit, and I do generally applaud Bioware in persisting the way they do in the face of it. In the case of Krem, what bothers me again is less than the Trans 101 angle exists, and more that it is not counterbalanced with much of anything else. Weekes himself acknowledged this (near the end: "For example, some trans folks feel I wrote the player choices to be too clueless or uninformed, and wished for options to speak from more personal experience. I’ve heard the feedback, and I intend to do better next time."). That said, I had somehow avoided hearing about the "white Isabella" mod and... wow. I guess there's a reason I don't really venture into DA fandom at large much.
I agree that Dorian/Bull suffers from iffy writing more than anything else, but again, it bothers me that it's the first queer companion romance and it's written to be so questionable. Again, if there were more queer relationships around, then one possibly unhealthy one wouldn't stick out.
That's my overall complaint, really; what everything boils down to: issues of trends, balance, and representation. The more you have of a particular kind of person, group or relationship, the less any one instance will stick out as unintentionally representative versus simply being a matter of characterization and worldbuilding.
Finally, I agree that the game relies a bit too much on banter; too much important characterization is optional or randomized. Good point.
Phew okay, sorry that was so long, but you gave me a lot to think about, and I'd definitely love to talk more!